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Boyz Will Be Boyz

May 14, 2008
Who are you talking about, sweetie? You are so racist! Stop being racist for pointing out my sexism.

32 Comments
  1. GeekLove permalink
    May 14, 2008 11:31 pm

    Thanks for posting my video “We’ve Come a Long Way, Baby!” and helping me spread the video.

    Let’s fight against the misogyny (and piling on) and work our hearts out.

    “Rise Hillary Rise”

    GeekLove08

  2. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 15, 2008 1:26 am

    You are very very welcome. Just trying to spread it around, snagged it from Uppity, should have linked back to you. Sorry, I am incredibly lazy at times.

  3. kaya permalink
    May 15, 2008 4:45 am

    kitty –

    i have to say i started reading this blog because you were always the only commenter to really call people out for sexism in an intelligent and critical way on other blogs. but now i’m disappointed to the point where i might have to stop reading this to keep my blood pressure down.

    do you honestly think that second video was in any way a fair representation of this campaign? taking samples from all sorts of sexist things that barack obama has ABSOLUTELY no control over is a great way to point out how misogynist america is, but we all knew about that long before the presidential campaign. if i wanted to make a little video compilation of all the racist representations of barack obama out there, and all of the quotes by hillary, her supporters, and people she has no real links to that could be construed as racist, i think we both know it would be a hell of a tragic video. but i recognize that’s a product of our racist society, not some kind of evil plot by hillary clinton to destroy obama through racism.

    its really, REALLY offensive to mock people’s legitimate concerns about the racism in this campaign the way you do in the three sentences you wrote above these videos. really offensive. and im really sad to see it from someone i previously had a lot of respect for.

  4. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 15, 2008 5:22 am

    Oh can it kaya. Obama has utilised sexism to his advantage.

    Periodically Feeling Down
    Claws Come Out
    Likeable Enough
    Sweetie
    That’s My Cell Phone
    Kiss For a Vote

    Those words came right out of his mouth.

    If you want to make a video about racism in America, feel free to do it. But I challenge you to come up with at least six racist dog whistles that have come out of Hillary’s mouth as I have written six sexist dog whistles that have come out of Obama’s mouth. And those are just off the top of my head, if I have been actually recording throughout the primary I am sure the list would be longer.

    And the shaming don’t do a damn thing to me. You want to talk about doing a disservice to racism, then talk about all the racist accusations that have been thrown around willy-nilly. Talk about how the Clintons have been painted as racists and it was racism that made Hillary Clinton switch from The Republican Party to the Democrat Party when the Republicans were blatantly employing the “Southern Strategy.” She found the southern strategy offensive, repulsive, to the point that she said so and left the Republican Party. Obama is not experienced enough to be President. Clinton’s policies, plans, experienced, ability to take criticism, ability to work with others, ability to check her ego runs circles around Obama. Obama is a fraud. A pandering fraud. At the end of the day, Obama is sexist. He is a sexist. He does not give a flying fuck about women (all women). What exactly has he done for women, black women, women in Southside Chicago?

    I don’t see you, Kaya, running over to the Field Negro or anywhere else and wagging your finger at the sexist bullshit, but you want to complain here? What has your reading done for me? What comment is this? Your second I think. Do you comment enough or check in here enough where I could make money on ads? Do you link to me? Do you tell others about me? No you don’t, yet you think you can control what I put up on my blog. You think you can shame me like a Sunday School teacher or something?

    Whatever. My female instincts tell me that Obama is another George Bush. I will be damn if any and all criticism of Obama is labeled racism, hence my reason for saying what I said in the first sentence. A disservice to racism is to call all criticism of a sexist inexperience man racist. What exactly does Obama have to do before calling him on it will not be called racist, murder a man?

    By the way, nice diversion. Obama calls a woman sweetie and we are not talking about that are we?

  5. kaya permalink
    May 15, 2008 12:18 pm

    i don’t really believe you think those 6 phrases you just threw out are the most important things going on right now in the campaign. and honestly at least half of them i’m not really convinced are sexist. do we live in a sexist society? yes. but did obama say hillary clinton’s “claws come out,” or did he say “claws come out” and you/everyone in this sexist country assumed he must be talking about hillary? and “periodically feeling down?” please. i’m pretty sensitive to sexism and even i can’t find it in me to get worked up over that. a person is allowed to reference another person’s flaws/humanity without it being sexist. hillary clinton is not always on the top of her game. sometimes she probably feels down. because she’s a fucking presidential candidate and thats a lot of work. not because she’s a woman.

    i could make you a fun list of sound bytes from hillary, such as “hard working americans, white americans,” or the various times she’s implied/cleverly managed to leave the option open that he’s a muslim, or if we want to include phrases like you did that most likely weren’t meant to be racist, the whole “fairy tales” thing, but its a stupid game. the racism in this campaign isn’t in remarks people make that could be interpreted as racist, its in the way hillary’s campaign has used jeremiah wright to paint obama as an ‘angry black man,’ frankly the way they’ve dismissed the entire black community in this country in their dealing with that situation, its in the way hillary continues to use the idea that ‘hard working white americans’ just won’t vote for obama, subtly implying that its because he’s black, its in her complicity in painting him as unpatriotic basically because he’s refused to pretend like he doesn’t think america has a race problem. you say racist accusations are being thrown around “willy nilly,” but thats kind of just a nice way of saying the racism just isn’t important to you. i’m not trying to diminish the sexism in this campaign but i’ve come to realize i can’t expect the same courtesy from others when it comes to racism.

    and frankly the argument that the OBAMA campaign has been racist is just immature. i’m not going to make any assumptions about whether you yourself are white or not, but speaking slightly more in the abstract, i’ve met plenty of white people in my day who, when faced with the thought that they might be a little racist (which frankly, everyone needs to just accept – if you live in america you are probably a little racist), turn around and call YOU racist for even bringing up race. its petty, and its a way of diverting from the real issue, speaking of diversions.

    and yeah i think calling someone “sweetie” can be considered condescending, but its no dismissal of the struggles and beliefs of women across the entire country. lets put this shit into perspective. of course obama’s got some male privilege going on – he’s a man in america. but i have this crazy suspicion that most of the people complaining loudest about his sexism have voted for those in the past. and don’t try to tell me bill clinton is somehow less sexist than obama.

    and finally, calling obama on sexism is not racist, calling him on it in the way that you do, and that everyone has been doing is racist. purposefully belittling the racism in the campaign is not going to make anyone believe in the sexism more. theyre both there – all you need to do is acknowledge it. criticize away – god knows theres a lot to criticize about obama, but if you just blindly criticize him about this one thing, people will stop listening to you because they’ll stop believing you’re even paying attention.

    oh and by the way no duh i haven’t been calling out the field negro. i stopped reading that blog like 3 months ago because it was so sexist. i’m not trying to “control what you put on your blog” (although i actually DO read often, and DID used to tell people about it, in case you actually cared and weren’t just being snarky), i’m telling you how i feel about what you put on your blog. if you don’t care, fine. i just thought you might be interested.

  6. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 15, 2008 1:27 pm

    Who are you talking about, sweetie? You are so racist! Stop being racist for pointing out my sexism.

    Kaya, maybe in your rush to call me a racist, you failed to understand what I’m saying in the above words. I am displaying my frustration with how none of Obama’s sexism can ever be called out because when it is, the person doing the calling out will be called racist. But instead of seeing that, you see a reason to call me a racist, and say that I do it all the time, it is on going, it is every time I talk about Obama. I can think of no other disservice to racism than calling people racists when they have not demostrated racist behavior.

  7. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 15, 2008 1:30 pm

    and finally, calling obama on sexism is not racist, calling him on it in the way that you do, and that everyone has been doing is racist.

    In the way that I do? You are saying that when I talk about Obama it is racist, each and every time. The way I do. Meaning, I cannot talk about Obama without it being racist, meaning, I have not talked about Obama without it being racist, in other words, I can never talk about Obama without it being racist. Disservice to racism 101.

    a person is allowed to reference another person’s flaws/humanity without it being sexist.

    Your words here Kaya, now let’ replace it with racist. a person is allowed to reference another person’s flaws/humanity without it being racist. Really? Apparently not. According to you, everything I say about Obama, including his gross inexperience is racist. It is racist to say a man with way less expereince than a woman is being promoted over that woman. But not sexist (because everyone is a little sexist, making it okay {wink})

    Obama is not the most qualified person for the President of the United States on the Democratic ticket.

    Obama is a sexist.

    But let’s call everyone who criticizes him racists are sellouts.

    Unity? Change?

    And I will be waiting for all the racists words that have come directly out of Hillary Clinton’s mouth, until the cows come home apparently.

  8. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 15, 2008 1:31 pm

    Oh and, Obama is a sexist!

    Let’s not divert.

  9. A-mazing Amazon permalink
    May 15, 2008 5:23 pm

    yes, obama is an unapologetic sexist.

    that second video was hard to watch. my eyes popping out of my head at the unchallenged attacks on hillary. oh, but we’re such racists, kitty! LOL! i can’t wrap my head around this accusation (women who call out sexism being racists) since if it weren’t for sexism, racism wouldn’t have been so successful (the cultural project of “other-ing”). you know, i don’t hate obama. i don’t even dislike him for the color of his skin. i think it would be poetic to have an off-white president. but i feel like obama is such a fake. a total poser. he’s not anywhere NEAR “progressive” as long as he’s telling his wife to put her career on hold while he does his thing. hillary was so impressive as a first lady because she took so much initiative to do something with her privileged position. of course, she’s been ridiculed from the get-go for not being strictly in the background. she’s had to put up with this shit for a long time. that’s why i’m so impressed with her. she’s barely phased by all this business as usual crap from the boyz. i really do admire her stamina & strength.

    i’m totally going to snag that video, too. (thank you, geeklove!! awesome work!)

  10. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 15, 2008 6:19 pm

    Ah, sweetie, it’s all good.

    Now it is your turn Amazing Amazon to

    giggle giggle……

  11. Lucky permalink
    May 16, 2008 2:41 am

    Hey, Kitty? Did you mention that Obama is sexist? 😛

    Yes, Obama is a male chauvinistic, sexist pig. But then, what else is new with men?

    I agree that Barack Obama isn’t the most qualified or the most experienced person on the Democratic ticket. That would be Hillary Clinton. So what else could it be but racial prejudice or downright sexism (or a combination of both) which prevents democrats from voting for Clinton?

    I mean, I could understand if Clinton was not the best candidate on the ticket, but come on, she was actually *in* the White House for 8 years and knows the protocol. She’s also a senator of NY and as the saying goes, if you can make there, you can make it anywhere. NYers are a tough crowd but they were pleased enough with Clinton to give her the state primary.

    My female instincts tell me that Obama is another George Bush.

    Well, I don’t think anyone could be as big of an asshole as George Bush, but yeah, Obama shares a little too much in common with Georgie Porgie. I, too, think Obama is a wolf in sheep’s clothing and is anything but a friend to women.

    “Patriarchy” means “the rule of the fathers.” Last I looked, race, class, creed, or color wasn’t a prerequisite for fatherhood. In fact, holy cow, isn’t Obama a father?! Hmmm… wouldn’t that make him a member of the patriarchy? You bet your sweet ass it does.

  12. kaya permalink
    May 16, 2008 10:29 pm

    a-mazing amazon – i agree with you about obama being a bit of a fake/nowhere near as progressive as he pretends to be, but to complicate things, i think hillary is similarly much further to the right than she pretends to be. which to me leaves us with two less than ideal choices, but thats the way things go.

    kitty – in your haste to prove you’re not ‘a racist,’ you’ve done an amazing job of simplifying everything i was trying to say to fit what you wanted to hear. maybe i wasn’t really being clear – i’m not saying you’re a racist, i’m saying i think a lot of the ways obama has been criticized for sexism have continued one step too far: case in point, and the reason i even posted this in the first place, this video ends not with a criticism of obama’s sexism, but with a fun little reminder that he belongs to a black church, and that his spiritual advisor “maligned america and advanced conspiracy theories.” if you don’t understand why i find that to be racist, i’d be happy to explain it, but for now i’ll just say it seems to me like a lot of people (hillary clinton included) are worried that criticizing him on his faults alone won’t be enough, so they throw in race at the end just to remind people that he too is an ‘other.’

    i mean i’ve never seen a presidential race in which people didn’t ‘play dirty’ so i guess i shouldn’t be surprised, but i am surprised that hillary supporters continue to see barack as the only one contributing to this horrible environment.

  13. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 16, 2008 11:23 pm

    kaya, you attacked me.

    its really, REALLY offensive to mock people’s legitimate concerns about the racism in this campaign the way you do in the three sentences you wrote above these videos.

    You did not limit the racist accusations to the makers of the video, but to me, for what I said at the beginning of this entry.

    I looked for your email and I could not find it so we could finish this through email instead of letting misogynists like brokekonman get his rocks off. But you don’t have one, so everything we say is up for public eyes, including bastards like brokekonman. You tried to write a narrative about me. I did not accept it. Then when I did not accept it you called my race into question. Questioning a narrative that you need in order to paint me however you want to paint me in order to dismiss my opinion instead of looking at the big picture.

    i mean i’ve never seen a presidential race in which people didn’t ‘play dirty’ so i guess i shouldn’t be surprised, but i am surprised that hillary supporters continue to see barack as the only one contributing to this horrible environment.

    You damn straight it is a horrible environment. But guess what. Obama has gotten a free ride from the press. It is not for me, a Clinton supporter to point out how innocent he is, it is for him to prove that he is innocent. He has not once, NOT ONCE, denounced the benefits that he has gotten because of how Clinton is being treated by the media and the blogger boyz. So why exactly should I point out anything suggesting he is not alone in slinging dirt? He is getting away with slinging dirt. That is what I have decided to point out. This race is hostile because a woman, a woman that is more qualified than a man is being shut out. The WHITE men in power are using Obama’s race to keep the power. I don’t know how fucking simplier it can get. The white men in power use a black man, both win, men still have power and the black man being used gets to have power, while women (all women) are shut the fuck down.

    I’m not playing any violins for Obama, EVER! I’m not going to let his race hem me up. When I know damn well that at the end of day he will spit on women just like the white men in power who helped him along.

  14. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 17, 2008 12:12 am

    but with a fun little reminder that he belongs to a black church, and that his spiritual advisor “maligned america and advanced conspiracy theories.”

    You are acting like a defense attorney trying to suppress evidence. If the church reminds everyone that it is a black church it is because it is a black church. Can you say his church is not a black church? But to point out that the purpose is to remind everyone it is a black church is race baiting. Because it is not about the church being black, it is not about understanding black churches, it is not about how communities need churches, it is not about demonising black churches, it is about how Obama aligned himself up with a man for twenty years that he now denounces. If we were to accept Obama’s denouncing of Wright then it only goes to say that we have to accept that Obama has poor judgment. Why should Obama denounce Wright? Did Wright do something wrong? By denouncing Wright, Obama is saying he feels the Wright preached things that are not right. It is Obama who is deflecting from his poor judgment (he is admitting that when he denounced Wright) and trying to make people believe that the people who have issue with Obama sitting in that church for twenty years and now denouncing it is doing it because the church is black. That. Does. Not. Make. Sense. It is about Obama and his poor judgment. And if it is not about poor judgment, then it is about disloyalty. Obama threw Wright under the bus. Do you want to support a man who throws his “friend,” his “uncle” his pastor of twenty years under the bus? Even if it was not for Obama’s sexism, I would have to question his motives. Obama cares about Obama. Him and his campaign with Axelrod (you know him, his specially is in brainwashing the public, he has gotten rich by brainwashing consumers) have disenfranchised, working class voters (mostly white but a hellva lot of Hispanics), women (most women), uneducated or one could say vocational workers, Hispanics, Asians, Jewish people, etc, etc. Right now, his core supporters are white men with power and their surrogates, –latte liberals who like to look down on po’ folks and tell them how they can better themselves, and African Americans. This did not happen accidently. Axelrod engineered this. He painted the Clintons as racists because he knew that charges of racism would be the hardest obstacle to overcome, especially if the collective black community did not see Obama as black enough, or if he was seen as a sell out, or as being too sa dity. Axelrod is the Democrats Rove.

  15. kaya permalink
    May 17, 2008 2:52 am

    kitty –

    i actually think there’s some merit in having discussions like this in a public forum rather than over private email – i know i often enjoy reading/learn from reading other people’s discussions, however if you would rather i email you let me know.

    maybe part of my lack of concern about the public forum is confusion – i have no idea who brokekonman is, or why this conversation would let him ‘get his rocks off.’

    i’ll try to keep this short – there are a lot of points. but first and foremost, i did not mean to ‘call your race into question.’ i assume you’re referring to me saying i’m not going to assume you are white, by which i was just trying to say that the following sentence was not some kind of subtle jab at you, if you are white. it was an observation i was making separate from you.

    i think its remarkable that you can accuse me of trying to dismiss your opinion. correct me if i’m wrong, but your opinion is that obama is running a sexist campaign. i don’t, and have not disagreed with that, and you saying that kiiind of makes me wonder how much you’re actually listening to me. i agree that it is sexist, although i disagree that each and every example you and others have brought up is an example of a sexist campaign. my point is that there is an equal level of racism in this presidential race as well, and demanding that we look only at the sexism and be offended only by that is neither fair nor productive.

    on to the ‘black church’ thing – either i misstyped or you misread: i wasn’t saying the church was reminding anyone it was a black church, i was saying this video you posted ends with a reminder that obama belongs to a black church. i agree that its kind of fucked up that obama denounced wright after 20 years, but do you really think he had any other choice? this country is so obviously not ready to deal with the fact that black americans have a lot to be critical of that he pretty much had no choice. you don’t run for president of the united states and then drop out of the race so as not to hurt your friend’s feelings. yeah i think it sucks he had to do that, and its not something i would have been able to do, but then again i would never run for president/have a chance of winning. and yeah, people aren’t questioning obama’s relationship with wright because he is black, but they are questioning it because of wrights words which, to a black american, are just not shocking. i listened to pretty much all of wright’s speeches and sermons – i thought they were great. but the majority of white america thought, honestly, that they were scary. and obama doesn’t have a hope of winning if the average american is scared of him. white people have always been able to criticize america in ways that black people get demonized for, and obama is now faced with trying to navigate a campaign that is painfully aware of the social context of his race, while simultaneously white people everywhere are denying that there is any racism involved because after all, its reverend wright who’s the real racist here, right?

    and i know this got long, but to your last point, i agree, to a certain extent, but i guess i really don’t believe that hillary is going to be any better of a president for poor/working class americans. she’s talking a better talk in the campaign, but lets be honest: american politics is not about helping the poor. the democrats do a better job at it than the republicans, but lets not act like this is something its not: neither hillary nor barack is about to reverse bill clinton’s massacre of the welfare system or provide true universal healthcare or reform our prison system. when it comes to the interests of the people of this country, we’re not really talking about the level of actual significant change. which i guess is neither here nor there. i’m not here to argue who would be the better president because i’m not thrilled with either of them. i’m just here to assert my existence as a black woman. racism and sexism both affect me, and i’m not in the mood to have either one dismissed.

  16. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 17, 2008 4:33 am

    You may not be in the mood to have racism or sexism dismissed but there are people in power (white men with money) who have in fact dismissed sexism and have used racism to their advantage and could care less what you or my mood calls for. As I stated before, I am under no obligation to fight Obama’s fight even if his fight affects me. He does not get to dictate which battle I elect to fight. You don’t either. That is what your first comment felt like from the beginning, —you telling me which fight I must select and if it is not the one that you select then I am “morally” inferior (you did not say it like that, but the connotations were there). As far as you deciding if something on this blog should be public or private, again, I am the one here, so it would seem that I have the default authority to know that history. And yes, brokekonman has followed me around the net. It always amazes me how a person will latch on to one internet personality and make it their mission to contradict or misrepresent or whatever you want to call it. I delete his comment stating he was going to run to your email and fill you in with the fictitious narrative he has created of my life. He has yet to get one fact correct.

    I do think there are differences between Obama and Clinton. Both in politics and symbolism. White men in power who are running Obama’s campaign, and let’s be honest here, Obama is allowing them to, is using the symbolism angle to their advantage while completely erasing any positive symbolic advantage for women (all women, because combating racism still leaves the sexism). No Clinton will not save the world. And Hillary Clinton is not Bill Clinton. This is not 1992-2000, but 2009-2012. Hillary Clinton has made the effort to at least pretend like she is listening. Obama has not. Obama dismisses people on top of his Mountain of Privilege. Obama cannot even bother to go into black communities.

    Obama does not have the experience Clinton has. No major news channel talked about Clinton today. Men are erasing Clinton. And on CNN, an anchor talked about how Obama hit back, talking about McCain. He went on to say how he had to restrain himself with Clinton but now he is hitting back, showing that he is a fighter. In other words, the boyz had to get rid of the girl, because boyz cannot hit girls, they had to get rid of the girl so they can get down to the “real” fight. That is paternalistic. That is patronizing. That is sexism.

    I don’t agree with what you are now saying about the video. I still say it is race baiting. I detest race baiting because it undermines cases of racism. Can we not stop and look into the future and see how much damage race baiting does. Tell me, how many people will use “crying racism” to dismiss a racist accusation when it is truly racism and get away with it because race baiting dominated the discourse and people in power says it is time to move on. Racist accusations should come correct. You know this. The sexism has been blatant. The sexism is blatant. If Obama were president today, nothing would change. I’m not rewarding sexism for no change. If Obama is in a bind behind his race in this campaign, he has no one to blame but himself (outside of real racists of course). He started this mess with his pretend post racial nonsense. He started this mess with his we are pass race shit. He allowed his campaign to paint the Clinton’s as racist before South Carolina, thus, taking black voters away from the Clinton’s.

    Obama is a sexist. I will not be diverted. I will not reward sexism.

  17. kaya permalink
    May 17, 2008 2:40 pm

    kitty: you continually seem to read a hell of a lot into my words when i mean them in a pretty straightforward way. i’m not implying that you are morally inferior, nor am i trying to dictate to you what fight you must fight, i’m telling you that the practice of choosing one fight and holding on to it as if it is the only thing going on is both nearsighted and counterproductive. i think we both feel that fighting sexism is a good thing to do, but you can’t fight sexism in a vacuum, as you are trying to do. you’ll lose. you can say “i will not be diverted” all you want, but eventually you’ll end up still forging straight ahead on a road going nowhere.

    an example: with all this argument over sexism and racism in the campaign, each ‘side’ of the debate seems determined to paint their candidate as the ultimate victim. hillary clinton is a woman facing sexism, and we manage to ‘forget’ to mention that she’s a white woman. barack obama is a black man facing racism, and we ‘forget’ to discuss the privileges he gets from being male. looking at race and gender as two independent issues is frankly preposterous. hillary is a woman, yes, and she has faced misogyny, yes. but it is her status as a WHITE woman that has allowed her to be as aggressive as she has been and as persistent as she has been without being labelled “angry” or “out of control.” just as it’s barack’s status as a man that allows him to be flirtatious without being criticized for that. supporting hillary is not a vote against sexism, its just a vote. she has been both hurt by AND benefited from misogyny, racism, and class privilege in this country, just as barack has, and if you think its as simple as “a vote for barack is rewarding sexism,” you’re not trying very hard to see the whole picture.

    and you can paint obama as a pawn all you want, but white men in power are running everything in this country.

  18. kaya permalink
    May 17, 2008 2:40 pm

    kitty: you continually seem to read a hell of a lot into my words when i mean them in a pretty straightforward way. i’m not implying that you are morally inferior, nor am i trying to dictate to you what fight you must fight, i’m telling you that the practice of choosing one fight and holding on to it as if it is the only thing going on is both nearsighted and counterproductive. i think we both feel that fighting sexism is a good thing to do, but you can’t fight sexism in a vacuum, as you are trying to do. you’ll lose. you can say “i will not be diverted” all you want, but eventually you’ll end up still forging straight ahead on a road going nowhere.

    an example: with all this argument over sexism and racism in the campaign, each ‘side’ of the debate seems determined to paint their candidate as the ultimate victim. hillary clinton is a woman facing sexism, and we manage to ‘forget’ to mention that she’s a white woman. barack obama is a black man facing racism, and we ‘forget’ to discuss the privileges he gets from being male. looking at race and gender as two independent issues is frankly preposterous. hillary is a woman, yes, and she has faced misogyny, yes. but it is her status as a WHITE woman that has allowed her to be as aggressive as she has been and as persistent as she has been without being labelled “angry” or “out of control.” just as it’s barack’s status as a man that allows him to be flirtatious without being criticized for that. supporting hillary is not a vote against sexism, its just a vote. she has been both hurt by AND benefited from misogyny, racism, and class privilege in this country, just as barack has, and if you think its as simple as “a vote for barack is rewarding sexism,” you’re not trying very hard to see the whole picture.

    and you can paint obama as a pawn all you want, but white men in power are running everything in this country.

  19. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 17, 2008 4:58 pm

    Since we are measuring priviledges, let’s not forget Obama’s priviledged upbringing. Let’s not forget his private school education, 7000 dollars a year at the time, the 70s, around 25000 dollars now, his Ivy league education. Let’s not pretend Obama grew up poor or with a single mother, that narrative is bullshit. His mother was single for two years and she had the support from her family to get a Phd. Let’s not forget Obama did not grow up the life of a struggling poor inner city black boy like people have tried to rewrite his past. Since we are comparing priviledges and all. Let’s not forget. Obama is not Tyrell over in Southside Chicago. He is not only a male, but a male who has had MAJOR class priviledge.

  20. kaya permalink
    May 17, 2008 8:14 pm

    i don’t know who Tyrell is, but that aside, what you just said is exactly what i was saying in my previous post. you’re trying to turn this into a “kaya wants me to vote for obama and i don’t like him” debate, and i’m not interested in talking about that, nor have i been this whole time. i agree that obama is incredibly privileged. my point is that YOU, kitty, have been incredibly single-minded in the issues you choose to engage with surrounding this campaign, and that your arguments would be both stronger and more respectful if you engaged with issues of race and class privilege as well as gender. acting like sexism is the only issue at play here just makes your argument weak.

  21. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 17, 2008 11:23 pm

    Kaya, listen to yourself. Why are you here? If you are not here to try and convince me to vote for Obama then why are you here? Are you here to save me from my “single-mindedness”? Are you here to rescue me out of my “vacuum”? If so, what result to you expect to achieve when I am rescued? When I am saved. When I see the light. Will I start shouting from the rooftops for everyone TO VOTE FOR OBAMA! Listen, I operate off of personal power. YOU, or no one else on the net get to tell me what I get to deal with, how much time I get to deal with it. Okay. Obama is weak. Obama’s resume is weak. Obama’s political resume is inferior to Clinton’s. Obama is a sexist. If you are not here to save me from my evil desire to fight sexism as a first priority, then what is your point? I will tell you want I see, I see someone trying to divert an ardent feminist and try to make your agenda my agenda. That will not happen. You can thumb your nose at me, you can call me names, you can talk shit, etc, etc, etc. I am a woman who has chosen to speak out against sexism. Honestly, if you are a woman as you claim to be, I really don’t see why it is bothering you so much that I am pointing the finger at a sexist.

    What do you get out of hiding Obama’s sexism?

  22. kaya permalink
    May 18, 2008 12:46 am

    ugh, ok i am done being nice to you. i have yet to “talk shit,” “call you names,” “etc. etc. etc.” but i guess you see what you want to see. it seems to me like you don’t operate off personal power as much as you operate off complete and total ignorance, and a willful blindness to anything but what you want to see.

    i’m HERE because as a woman and a feminist it bothers me to see other women giving feminism a bad name by associating it with racism, with weak claims, and frankly, with hillary clinton.

    i’m here because as a black woman it bothers me that the feminists who have been so quick to rally around hillary clinton have not ever taken the issues that face black women seriously, but rather have considered the fight for women’s rights only in the myopic context of the fight for WHITE women’s rights.

    i am here because i keep thinking, stupidly, that if i explain myself one more time, you’ll hear what i’m saying instead of hearing what you want to hear.

    i don’t care about barack obama, and i could care less who you vote for or whose name you scream from the rooftops. i’m here because the more bullshit you put out on the web during this campaign, the more you contribute to the atmosphere of racism and sexism that has dominated these last few months.

    i’m here because the idea of “fighting sexism as a first priority” is like saying your priority is not starving, so you’ll spend your life doing nothing but eat. i guess i thought maybe you wouldn’t want to die of thirst, but clearly self-destruction makes you happy, and as a (i’m going out on a limb here!) white woman, you have privilege that gives you the illusion that what you are doing is NOT self-destruction, because you’ll see it harming me before it harms you. and you could care less about anyone but yourself.

    and i guess i’m here because i assumed that someone who cares this much about women would be open to criticism and capable of listening. which i now realize was a rookie mistake. sorry to have wasted your time.

  23. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 18, 2008 1:58 am

    You only call my personal power ignorance because I am not writing what you want/need me to write. You are dismissing me as ignorant because I am not allowing you to dictate my output. Call it whatever you want, you do not get to decide what I get to focus on. Is it that is that difficult to understand. I will take any label thrown at me before I will submit. No one, NO ONE is taking my instincts, my personal power, my personal judgment that I have learned to trust through experiences away from me.

    i’m here because as a black woman it bothers me that the feminists who have been so quick to rally around Senator Hillary Clinton have not ever taken the issues that face black women seriously, but rather have considered the fight for women’s rights only in the myopic context of the fight for WHITE women’s rights.

    This above rhetoric is complete and total bullshit. If you think feminists (in the collective sense, many all races who claim to be feminists) are only interested in white feminism then what are you saying about all the women of colour who actively participate and choose to focus on supporting Clinton? You are erasing all women of colour who support Clinton. Thank you, how sweet. You are making yourself judge and jury. Let’s be frank here. Hillary Clinton is a woman, a woman that is more qualified than the man that the Democratic elites are pushing forward. THAT IS A FEMINIST ISSUE! I’m so sorry Clinton is white! I don’t see what Obama has done for black folks other than get black credentials by sitting in a black church for twenty years and then paying that black church back by throwing its pastor under the bus for white men and liberal latte surrogates (Whole foods superiors), who probably have never had to face real oppression in their fucking life. And giving a less than qualified black man the nomination over a qualifed woman (of any colour) is not doing anything for racism at all. If anything it will cause more problems with actual racists. There are racists who love to pick up on this type of shit.

    HELL NO, I am not going to put Obama before Clinton, HELL FUCKING NO! In your world, for feminists (all, but you have made that group into white) to be labeled as a group that takes black women seriously, they must support a privileged man, one who has had enormous class privilege and gender privilege over a woman, who is white. See, you have made up your own value system. It is this type of ideology that reinforces white power, that gives strength to white power. You are equating male privilege, along with class privilege, along with all the other privileges (he is second generation college-educated, he grew up in a diverse community) Obama has as being inferior to simply being white. So a po white uneducated person has more power than Obama. WOW! Well, good Goddamn, in your world, white is one hellva strong privilege. Can you tell me where I can buy some of that kind of privilege? Talk about fighting racism. How in the hell can racism be defeated if one side is giving the other side an endless supply of rations and ammunition. You are making white power stronger by trying to promote a less qualifed black man over a qualifed white woman, and saying people who do not want to do this are racists.

    You want to talk about taking black women seriously? Look around, no women, NO WOMEN are being taken seriously this election cycle. If you think it is limited to black women, then it is you with the myopic view. Women (all) mean nothing to these people who want power. If white women, white feminists are truly just in it for white women, then why talk to someone who you think is a white feminist. Why not just dismiss that person. Why talk to any feminists, seeing that feminists in the collective sense are only out for white women. Again that conclusion is saying all women, of all colours who are feminists are really just working for white women and on other women.

    And again, I have to ask, why me, why here. I am only one feminist. The only power I have is my personal power. This is most telling. You want/need to destroy deconstruct what you think I am, who I am, what I am doing to the world, all the while the boyz in power are still in power. What’s that all about? If I fell off the face of the earth right now, you will still be inferior to privileged men, including Obama. But you Need me to be the enemy. What is that all about?

  24. kaya permalink
    May 18, 2008 2:24 am

    if you have the time to write such long responses, i would think you’d have the time to actually read mine.

    for the last fucking time: i do not want you to support obama. let me say it again, since i know you’ll make me repeat it anyways: i do not want you to support obama. if you feel the need to respond to me with more bullshit about why you don’t like obama, go ahead and just copy-paste this as my response. i don’t give a shit what you think about him, and this discussion is not and has not been (for me, obviously not for you) about him. i find it amusing that someone who so hates all the male privilege he has continues to give him so much importance in a conversation that is not even about him.

    did i mention that i do not want you to support obama?

    great. now that that’s out of the way, another thing you managed to skim over: i don’t think all feminists are white, nor did i say that. i said feminists like YOU only care about white women. and its feminists like YOU i have a problem with. there are plenty of women of color out there, clinton supporters or no, who are doing great things for feminism. there are also some who aren’t. but like you said, you are only one feminist. and right now it is YOU i am talking about.

    i am not even going to address the “So a po white uneducated person has more power than Obama” comment because its clear at this point that you are incapable of wrapping your mind around anything that can’t be explained in a linear/hierarchical fashion, so to tell you that white privilege is one of many powerful forces in this society, all of which interact in complex ways, would just confuse you. where is it on the list of privileges, you’ll ask. which one is most important? your brain might explode with the strain. i won’t trouble you with it.

    obviously i am not able to dictate your output. i posted originally because i thought from seeing you on other blogs that you might care if someone found one of your posts racially offensive. i was clearly wildly mistaken about that, and you also clearly aren’t interested in reading my comments carefully enough to even understand what i’m saying, so it seems like this “conversation” probably needs to end before i lose my mind.

    keep on blogging about whatever the hell you want. next time you say something offensive i’ll keep my criticism to myself, although i hope that the next time *I* say something offensive, someone calls me on it.

  25. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 18, 2008 4:10 am

    Thank you for giving me permission to blog about what I want to blog about. Thank you for telling me what I care about. Thank you for telling me who I am. Do you feel empowered now? You started the post ranting about Obama, now since you did not manage to sway me or make me fit into whatever you want me to be or make me say whatever you needed me to say you created your own narrative about me, —what I care about, and what I am, and what my agenda is, etc, etc. I’m sorry you need to control people like me so much. Perhaps, one day you will spend that time and energy trying to get through to all of those priviledge men who continue to not give a flying fuck about you or me.

  26. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 18, 2008 4:10 am

    Thank you for giving me permission to blog about what I want to blog about. Thank you for telling me what I care about. Thank you for telling me who I am. Do you feel empowered now? You started the post ranting about Obama, now since you did not manage to sway me or make me fit into whatever you want me to be or make me say whatever you needed me to say you created your own narrative about me, —what I care about, and what I am, and what my agenda is, etc, etc. I’m sorry you need to control people like me so much. Perhaps, one day you will spend that time and energy trying to get through to all of those priviledge men who continue to not give a flying fuck about you or me.

  27. Brittany permalink
    May 18, 2008 9:05 pm

    So I lied. I came back. I can’t believe you actually deleted my comment. lmao, I didn’t even attack you OR Hillary Clinton (who you seem to really, really, really like). I just was wondering if you were actually reading what Kaya said so much as you were trying to respond.
    I wonder if you’ll delete this, too. Probably. But that just proves everybody’s point.

  28. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 18, 2008 10:21 pm

    Brittany, STFU. Not only did I not see a comment of yours, I did not delete one. Maybe you need to lay off that crack you are smoking. So take your messy ass somewhere else. Because I will not tolerate troublemakers, people who only come to start shit. Now git and grow the fuck up. Birds of a the same feather and all of that.

  29. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 19, 2008 6:40 am

    if you don’t want to hear from anyone who disagrees with you, don’t allow comments on your blog. although i have to give you credit for “messy ass.” i haven’t heard that in some time. and hopefully won’t hear it again for some more.

    Kaya, I’m tired of going around in circles with you. You don’t tell me what comments I allow or not. Got it! Don’t tell me to turn comments off or on or accept or deny. Got it! And I went over to your blog and I see how you are propping up brokekonman and believing his lies. Whatever. ALL, ALL of brokekonman’s comments get deleted over here. Period. I don’t care if he says my shit smells like roses and agrees with every word I say, his ass will meet the delete button. I told him way back a few months ago he is not welcome here. He can call it hypocrisy until the second coming of Christ. Ain’t no man, going to come up in my blog, talk shit to me, tell me what I should be doing, etc, etc, and then have a soundboard for his abuse provided by me. No. I gave him a chance to apologise when his sorry ass called me a piece of shit at The Field Negro’s. Up until then he was allowed to comment here. But he had to go over there and show his ass. He could not bother to make amends. Instead he launched a full scale attack. Always worrying about what I’m doing, what I’m saying somewhere like he is paying my fucking bills or something. Only yesterday he emailed me about some nonsense. I don’t fuck with him and I’m not trying to fuck with anyone who gives him a platform to talk shit about me. I don’t enable abuse. Period. His existence here on this blog is dead to me.

    As far as Brittany. I’m not studying Brittany. She has never commented here before and then she wanted to come here with a bam, talking shit about her comment getting deleted. She met the delete button after that. I don’t need half ass flattering mixed with being put down. Don’t need, won’t allow it. So, if you want to start over, we can start over. But I’m not trying to hear anyone telling me how I’m thinking this or thinking that or I in this for that or whatever.

    So IN CONCLUSION. I do what the fuck I want to do and I don’t give a flying fuck if anyone likes it or don’t like it. People will come correct or get the boot. I’m not getting paid here.

  30. A-mazing Amazon permalink
    May 19, 2008 7:57 pm

    holeee shit. kitty, you probably deleted that last comment due to badgering, but i got to read that bullshit because i was emailed all the comments since my comment.

    who exactly do these people think they are thinking that they can come to YOUR blog and bully you around and then recruit other commentors to come to YOUR blog and tell you that you have bad blogging etiquette? fuck that. it’s like someone coming into your house and going on and on about how you don’t keep a tidy enough house or that you should behave according to how they think you should while they are in YOUR house. totally rude, speaking of etiquette.

    it takes all kinds, people. so, if you don’t like the way that kitty deals with the way you badger her in her own space then don’t come here and don’t read. for sure, don’t attack kitty for having her own fucking opinions. and, even more so, don’t come with criticism that isn’t constructive and then act like you don’t understand why kitty is telling you to STFU!

    i really enjoy reading what you write kitty. 🙂 i admire how you hold your own. i just wanted to publicly show my support for you in the face of these badgers.

  31. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 19, 2008 9:51 pm

    totally AA, thanks for the support. I will not enable dog piling, and that was the attempt. I mean, duh, I have a stat counter, it shows that people are coming from their email, meaning so and so emailed so and so the link and then they came here to shit. I think it is funny how people think I am here for them and how I should do things the way they want me to do things.

  32. Kitty Glendower permalink
    May 19, 2008 9:51 pm

    totally AA, thanks for the support. I will not enable dog piling, and that was the attempt. I mean, duh, I have a stat counter, it shows that people are coming from their email, meaning so and so emailed so and so the link and then they came here to shit. I think it is funny how people think I am here for them and how I should do things the way they want me to do things.

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