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Open Thread 16

July 31, 2009


  1. July 31, 2009 4:56 pm

    Well, I’m glad it’s Friday, I can tell you that much. It’s been a rough week.

  2. atheistwoman permalink
    July 31, 2009 5:55 pm

    It has been a looooong week.

  3. Mary Sunshine permalink
    July 31, 2009 6:42 pm

    I can’t remember what happened last week. In some ways, that can be a good thing.

  4. July 31, 2009 6:55 pm

    My oldest daughter is having a baby, due some time between Valentine’s Day and Edna St. Vincent Millay’s birthday. I am hoping that it is closer to Edna St. Vincent Millay’s birthday, because a Valentine’s birthday seems so droll.

    According to an online pregnancy calculator, she will begin her 12th week this coming Sunday. I’ve known for a long time but held my tongue because I lost two fetuses between the 11th and 12th week. Many people don’t know but 1 in 4 pregnancies are aborted naturally. When my daughter told me, she was about two weeks pregnant, yes, that is how we roll, we know we are pregnant the next day, I went out of my way not to see it as a bad thing. Even though for the first time in her life she actually completed the FAFSA, applied to a JR. College and was accepted and talked to a guidance counselor, I did not say anything remotely doom and gloom (she does have a skill, she graduated from a tech school a few years ago, but both she and I always knew she was an intellectual and would not be satisfied in the technical field. She needs to be a teacher or a scientist or a sociologist or something, but not a tech anything, she is far too analytical and not a division of labor type, not that one is superior to the other). I learned my lesson last time when I suggested an abortion. I did not suggest adoption like my mother did when I was pregnant with said daughter. My mother had to be out of her ever-loving mind, she knows damn well our family does not do adoption. Sheesh. Especially, she had some nerve since my brother got a girl pregnant when he and she were both 15 and her parents basically forced her into an adoption and it has been an ominous like vein running through our family ever since whenever someone says the word adoption, —and that was like 40 years ago.

    My daughter thinks abortion should be legal, even available free for any woman who wants/needs an abortion, but for her, NEVER NEVER NEVER will she consider an abortion. Except, I don’t know about in cases of rape, for some reason I have not presented that scenario to her. Anyway, as I said, I learned my lesson the first time around. So this time I went out of my way to present all the positive things about her having a baby. Like for one thing, her first child will now have a playmate. Also, my daughter is the type that has to have a burden to understand a burden. Not calling her baby a burden mind you, just saying. Like she has to be stopped by the police for talking on a cell phone to stop talking on a cell phone while driving. It has been a source of contention between us two, mostly my fault because I started raising her with the assumption that she was me, just a younger model. Big mistake. I am a person that does not have to experience things to feel them to the most nuanced detail. The other day I had to make my youngest daughter turn off the show Ice Road Truckers because I was in the driver’s seat driving over the creaking and cracking ice in North Alaska and I just could not take it for one more minute. But I understand now, I really really do, that she is not me. So it has all been happiness and looking forward to this baby. And in our family, we are isolated individuals, because no one and I mean NO ONE (we racked our brains to find one person) ever congratulates someone for having a baby or make having a baby a happy event. Having babies are always, ALWAYS a terrible terrible crime, especially if my mother is the first to learn of a pregnancy. My brothers and my sister act the same way. So when my daughter and one of my nieces were pregnant we had to sort of keep it a joyful secret to ourselves and talk amongst ourselves about the new baby coming. Because everyone knows how miserable it will be when my mother discovers a baby is on its way.

    For this baby I am quite giddy. We want a girl so bad. Out of my mother’s great grandchildren, which she has 12 right now, this baby will be number 13, ten are boys and only two are girls. We want number 13 to be a girl. My daughter will go to school this semester and take the Spring off and hopefully be back by Fall 2010. And to everyone (my mother and brothers) who thinks she should be miserable they can just kiss my ass, and hers, and our new baby girl that is coming around Edna St. Vincent Millay’s birthday.

  5. atheistwoman permalink
    July 31, 2009 7:26 pm

    Well congratulations grand—coughs, what was that, hey, I think I see a bird! ;-). Congratulations, I hope with you it is a girl.

  6. August 1, 2009 10:42 am

    You know, Kitty, I’ve always sort of felt dread at the news of a pregnancy. I’ve learned it’s best for me to just not say anything at all, and let people assume my disapproval or dread or trepidation, rather than voice it. And I’m sure my disapproval and foreboding have a different root than your mother’s, but still.

    I do hope it’s a girl, though.

    • Mary Sunshine permalink
      August 1, 2009 11:09 am

      … I’ve always sort of felt dread at the news of a pregnancy. I’ve learned it’s best for me to just not say anything at all …


    • August 2, 2009 12:43 am

      No problem. I can understand how people can hold opposing views and still care and respect for each other. Politically, I would have preferred that she ran from the burden of having children too. And I would never dare say having children is a feminist act. But, it is her life. All I know as someone who experienced being hated for having children is that I am not going to go out of my way to make her life miserable (and I am talking on a personal/family level, because I understand politically, mothers have been valued over women who have chosen not to have children). She claims she appreciate my opposing view (without malice).

      Just today she was telling me about how a boy (I guess really a man) she knows told her that when he was a kid his father would not eat until everyone (the wife and children) all ate. I asked if this meant he wanted to make sure they all ate first before he ate (like he wanted to eat alone) or did it mean they were short on food and he wanted to make sure they all had enough to eat before he ate. She said the latter. Either way, it seemed fishy to me, a little too noble. I told her that more than likely he ate at his girlfriend’s house first and wanted to find a noble reason not to have to eat again at home with his wife and children. She said, “good ol’ mommy, always keeping the reality of men right there.” Yep, good ol’ mommy.

    • atheistwoman permalink
      August 2, 2009 1:17 am

      LOL! Yes, it’s “possible” he was doing it for noble causes but it’s also possible that I ran away to the circus and became acrobat. Yanno, possible. Anyway there is a whole body of research that says it is bullshit and that women are the ones that go without food (and money) when there is poverty in a household.

  7. August 2, 2009 2:05 am

    When I was about 13-14, I used to occasionally spend the night at a good friend’s house. We always cooked dinner together, since it was one of her chores, for her brother, mom, and stepfather. Her mother, who was pregnant at the time, had only recently married the man, perhaps within 2 years of my meeting my friend, if it had been that long. Anyway, we’d cook dinner, then we had to wait for the stepfather to pile his plate, then her mother, and then my friend, her brother and I were allowed to serve ourselves. And we couldn’t get seconds until he’d had as many helpings as he wanted.

    That’s what all this made me think of.

    • August 2, 2009 2:23 am

      My mother did that crap with my brothers when we had more than one serving. My two oldest brothers always knew seconds, whereas I didn’t. And I did not know what a fried chicken breast, or any chicken breast really, tasted like until I was old enough to order and pay for one from Popeye’s.

  8. August 2, 2009 6:31 am

    I’m trying to use my left hand to navigate my computer mouse (to give my right arm/elbow a break and to prevent carpel tunnel syndrome) and I am not having much luck.

  9. kamododragon permalink
    August 3, 2009 4:44 am

    You might want to see this blog because someone is writing challenging the womyn born womyn

    Hate 101: The Womyn Born Womyn Movement

    • Mary Sunshine permalink
      August 3, 2009 2:31 pm

      Hi Kamododragon,

      Thanks for that. Basically, it’s an exercise in baiting. I learned a long time ago not to take the bait.

      Those guys are expressing their own misogyny more than anything. Female-born i.e. real lesbians have ways of meeting and organizing that are not permeable to MTFFs.

    • kamododragon permalink
      August 3, 2009 5:38 pm

      When I read it, it really pissed me off that they were trying to drag the intersex community and the intersex people into a trans fight. They claim that in that blog post that trans issues is an intersex issue. I guess it’s one of those male identified MTFF’s expressing their own misogyny and using their male privilege to complain and bait people into their fight. That’s why I keep my eye on blogs and post like that.

    • August 3, 2009 6:51 pm

      Nicky, I know you probably know this already, ——-you have every right to feel angry about MTF-F’s trying to appropriate your reality. They will try to stick on anything to justify their delusions and there is a need for someone to keep it real.

      You have every right to be diligent. They are assholes, pure and simple.

      Keep on keeping on.

  10. kamododragon permalink
    August 4, 2009 1:02 am

    I know, they will try to stick on anything to justify their delusion. Even the far outlandish ones such as the intersex brain theory and the so called Harry Benjamin Syndrome. I have seen MTF-F’s try and claim intersex by the intersex brain theory and the so called Harry Benjamin Syndrome. They go around claiming that their MTF-F because of the intersex brain theory and the Harry Benjamin Syndrome.

    I am vigilant and diligent when i see on blogs, forums and articles of transgender people trying to stick the intersex people to their fights, so they can justify their delusion. They try and write stuff claiming that intersex people are part of their fight.

    I keep on and keep my eyes out when these MTF-F’s try to stick it to the feminist and intersex.

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