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Open Thread 68

November 19, 2010

  1. November 19, 2010 7:59 pm

    I was called into my boss’ office today and told that a complaint has been made about me. Apparently I am ‘ramming homosexuality down my colleagues’ throats’. I work with a bunch of straight women who drone on incessantly about every aspect of heterosexuality under the sun, including graphic descriptions of gross het fucking. When I dare to mention a lesbian perspective on whatever they are talking about (and I have never been graphic about sex), suddenly I am being inappropriate.

    • Mary Sunshine permalink
      November 19, 2010 8:42 pm

      They want to punish you for what they were too terrified or self-hating to do. i.e. Be lesbian, and proud.

      Beware the toxicity of het females in groups. Whoever turned you in is now at the top of her competitive het female heap.

    • November 19, 2010 8:46 pm

      Shit. That’s horrible, Val. Hope you’re okay.

    • November 20, 2010 12:05 am

      They want to punish you for what they were too terrified or self-hating to do. i.e. Be lesbian, and proud.

      Sounds a lot like some of the women on the internet to me, especially the dyke-hater FCM and her dyke-hating friends who all insist lesbianism is impossible for most women so lesbians should just shut the hell up about it.

      Mary, I don’t understand why anyone who already knows what those sorts are like would hang out with them, especially while warning others against their tendencies.

      I’m really sorry to hear you’re dealing with this, Val. You’re really going to have to start taking some steps to protect yourself.

    • November 20, 2010 12:16 am

      FCM is racist and classist as hell. Why don’t she just submit a picture wearing of KKK hood and call it a day.

      I am so sick of racist and classist white women, especially on the internet.

    • November 24, 2010 8:31 pm

      Oh no Valerie, that’s terrible. Token torturers seems like a more and more common occurance.

  2. November 19, 2010 9:30 pm

    Thanks, I’m okay it’s just annoying to have to explain all day to my straight male boss why that *is* actually homophobic.

    Straight women want lesbians to be ‘out at work’, by which they mean publicly acknowledge their lesbianism so that they (the straight women) don’t have to feel like they are oppressing anyone. But then they want you to never mention it again, in any context. Meanwhile, what am I supposed to listen to? Wedding chat, diet chat, shoe chat, dick chat, boyfriend chat, kidvomit chat, kidpoo chat, makeup chat, het celebrity couple chat, het sex chat, housework chat…and I am ramming *my* sexuality down their throats?

    Yeah even when I was in the closet I struggled to get on with straight women (besides a few cool ones) but now that I am out I just feel less and less like I can trust them, especially in groups, like you say Mary. I don’t want to be an asshole but that is just how I feel today. *Obviously* there are loads of straight women who are not like this.

  3. November 19, 2010 10:35 pm

    You’re not an asshole, Val, at all! I hardly know you and you seem wonderful — thoughtful, courageous, and a good friend. You’re in a horrible situation. Het supremacy is so dominant and intrinsically Lesbian-hating that of course being treated like that is driving you crazy. With all their bonding and bragging about their miserable, shallow lives, they’re excluding and oppressing you. I suspect that most het women are like that though. It’s more than you’re an embarrassing outsider they’d rather ignore — you call their entire existence and life choices into question. You are a reminder that there is another way, and much better way, to live.

    You have the right to talk at least as much about your Lesbian life as they do their het bragging. But your existence alone is too much for them. So you aren’t safe.

    Maybe as soon as the original chapter 2 from our book is typed, it could be sent to you, even before proof-reading. It’s about het women’s privilege and betrayal of Lesbians.

    We’re hear for you, Val!

  4. November 19, 2010 10:37 pm

    Sorry for the typos! I can’t think and type at the same time.

  5. Linda Radfem permalink
    November 19, 2010 11:15 pm

    Hugs for you Val. I can really empathise with what you’re dealing with at work. I have three jobs and different kinds of het oppression occur in all of them. But that hetchat about hetsex and which male celebrities they are currently drooling over, is really nauseating. Middle class married women seem to think there is something cool and hip about this – there is one woman who constantly refers to herself as a proud cougar. I seriously wonder if they ever notice that I go quiet during these conversations, that I stare at the floor, or suddenly need to leave the room – they often seem to expect me to actually join in, to agree with them that yeah I’d totally love to jump [insert celeb beefcake] bones. It’s disgusting.

    It’s a lot better at my other two jobs where the team is more diverse, although I am aware that my boss there likes to consider me living proof of how tolerant and diverse they are – a token in a way. I’m also dealing with a young female client at that job, who has expressed fear that I might be eyeing her off all the time. Fucking hell. There are three straight male youth workers there as well. Apparently she’s not worried about them fancying her! This comes back to the fact that people see lesbianism as a purely sexual category – we have no other dimension whatsoever in the minds of straights.

    On a practical note, is it worth digging out your company’s policy manuals or the relevant industry legislation in order to defend yourself? Producing documents on discrimination can be very powerful when you need to self-advocate.

    • soulsis permalink
      November 20, 2010 12:20 am

      “Apparently she’s not worried about them fancying her! This comes back to the fact that people see lesbianism as a purely sexual category – we have no other dimension whatsoever in the minds of straights.”

      This might be a lil janky, and let me know if it is. But would anyone consider that the above is partly true because of projection? Like het women projecting male behaviors onto lesbians? It’s DEFINITELY lesbophobic, like ur more worried abt a woman eyeing you when there are men who are doing the same and you take no issue. But do you think that a tiny sliver of that is projection or projected internalized misogyny? Does this make sense? I haven’t really processed it fully… sorry ladies.

    • la redactora permalink
      November 20, 2010 12:43 am

      It is pathetic when straight women go on about about lesbians acting like men, and use this as a reason to not be around/shun/insult lesbians…you totally know they aren’t doing the same with men! It reminds me of white women complaining that black women are more male-centric, and then gushing on about daddy or their “partner.”

  6. November 19, 2010 11:58 pm

    I agree, Linda. Documentation is very good, including documentation of incidents with the het pack. If they’re talking about fucking, it needs to be documented. It has to be sexual harassment of some sort. At the very least, it’s inappropriate and unprofessional. Note everything – dates, times, participants – and keep it filed away until you need it. Since you’ve already been called to the boss’s desk, that will probably be sooner than you think.

  7. soulsis permalink
    November 20, 2010 12:13 am

    **warning, soulsis is NOT pulling any punches in this one and it’s ranty. You’ve been warned**

    Today made me wanna scream till it hurt. I so wish I could give detailed specifics…. but lets just say that there is this faux male in class that has been irking the living HELL out of me for days now. I have no patience for stupidity and folks calling themselves things they’re not. You’re not a man because your bound your breasts and adopted a way of thinking that is so misogynist it almost makes me prefer the born males. You are not a lesbian because you simply thought it in your mind, especially if you are MARRIED to a man and fucking him, you are hetero you are hetero you are hetero! A woman who fucks a man is a hetero, end of fucking story. You’re not an expert because you took one goddamn class, you’re a fool and a charlatan and you need to be taken down a peg. Furthermore you shouldn’t be allowed to SPEAK period because all you’re doing is PISSIN me off with your dumbassery! You don’t know more than the instructor who has had 30+ years in this field just because you have a dick (or want a dick) and she is a woman. Actually having a dick means you probably don’t know SHIT about anything anyway since you have the privilege to go around thinking that having shit swinging between your legs makes u better!!!!

    And now that I have said that I feel so much better. What the HELL is wrong with people? I feel like the damn walls are closing in around me and like every second the air is getting worse. 😦 I reported the trannie male to the professor, and of course “he” takes to repainting the picture to make me out to be some sort of overly sensitive female. No ASSHOLE u spitting out a slew of anti-female terms and expecting that no one should be upset by it is the problem. And I’m waiting for “him” to go running claiming “he” can say this shit because “he” is a woman. you can’t have it both fuckin ways. same with the “lesbian” in my class who was bitching about how her side dick wouldn’t fit her into his schedule. YOU ARE A GODDAMN HETERO.

    omg maybe it’s just me… maybe I’m the one with the issues and the rest of the world is perfectly normal in its lesbophobic, misogynist, disgusting little way.

  8. November 20, 2010 12:45 am

    I think the moon must be in Cancer, or something like that.

    • Mary Sunshine permalink
      November 20, 2010 12:53 am

      It doesn’t *feel* as if it’s in Aquarius, does it?


    • soulsis permalink
      November 20, 2010 1:13 am

      That actually makes a LOT of sense. 🙂 Thanks for letting me rant.

  9. Linda Radfem permalink
    November 20, 2010 1:10 am

    Racist men who think they are women want us to be aware that it’s a national rememberance day or… something. This guy makes me want to scream.

    Margaret – good thought. It would defo be sexual harassment.

  10. November 20, 2010 1:16 am

    I agree completely, Soulsis, that het women will often be leery at Lesbians or have fantasies or be overtly flirting. That sexual objectification that males do often are picked up by male-worshipping women. That’s why I hate Lesbianism being called a “sexual preference.” It trivializes how and why and who we love, love is far more powerful.

    And, of course, aren’t het women thwarted because really it’s only natural to love other females with passion.

    Yes, we talked about it in our book how het women project their fear of men onto Lesbians, while accepting men sexually harassing them. But then that’s “normal.”

    I’m reading down… I thought the moon was in Taurus. That explains something…or not. Well, I’m Scorpio with Taurus rising, and anyway, I LOVED your rant, soulsis! Thank you!!! That was fun! And you are right!

    I will continue reading what I don’t see here…

  11. Linda Radfem permalink
    November 20, 2010 1:48 am

    So if I understand you, soulsis and Bev Jo, het women’s loathing of us is one more distraction that they have to enable them in turning a blind eye to male violence/abuse/predation/general assholery? So then we become a convenient dumping ground for their fear of men, in order that they can more easily get on with the job of picking up after men and laying underneath them. I think that yes that is an extreme form of misogyny – to transfer blame for men’s atrocities onto Lesbian women. Wow. I don’t know how I never saw that before.

    • November 24, 2010 8:36 pm

      Also, wow. It also explains most of my lesbophobic highschool bullying. I have so missed the wisdom around here!

  12. November 20, 2010 1:52 am

    Yes, that’s it. Lesbians as scapegoats for male crimes. It’s in our book, which hopefully will be available online soon. Or at least that chapter.

  13. Linda Radfem permalink
    November 20, 2010 2:13 am

    Thanks Bev Jo. I’m just reading some of it now on The Magazine Project.

  14. November 20, 2010 4:18 am

    Thank you, Linda, in response to what you wrote at The Magazine Project.

    I’m responding here because I don’t know how to respond on my blog. Yes, link whatever you want. I’m re-writing/editing it, and also waiting for more horror stories to add.

  15. November 20, 2010 8:32 pm

    I am really starting to wonder if I’m going through the menopause. It never occurred to me before, because I’m 38, and I thought that was kind of young. But I was talking to my mum today about some stuff that is going on with me, and her first comment was, “sounds like the change”. The Change. I don’t know. Could be the beautiful combination of PCOS/hypothyroidism/shit job/desperately-need-to-sort-out-my-life-ness. But maybe it’s The Change.

  16. November 20, 2010 9:17 pm

    Oh Georgie,

    I was going to write to you privately about your wonderful support for me on Megan’s thread with the disgusting pricks, but I just saw your posting here.

    Yes, absolutely you can be in peri-menopause. There is a lot you can do for your symptoms, and I’m guessing that, like most of us, you’re insulin resistant and have metabolic syndrome (from growing up in cultures filled with carbs and not enough healthy saturated fat and meat.) Do you eat soy or raw brassaiacs (the cabbage family — broccoli, chard, kale, mustards, etc.) and grains and beans — because they can all DESTROY your thyroid and definitely can suppress it. I also think most women in our similar cultures are hypothyroid and most don’t know it because doctors (here, anyway) don’t do the right kinds of tests. Thyroid suppression causes depression, exhaustion, aching — many symptoms, as well as contributing to peri-menopause by interfering with your other hormones. If you go to Layna Berman’s site, she has so much information from her radio show, “Your Own Health and Fitness.” I’ve been listening to her for 15 years and she has helped me with an incredible amount of health information, including support to say no to doctors. She’s been right before doctors admitted it about transfat and HRT, and so much else. (She advocates hormone replacement ONLY with bio-identical, not bio-similar, hormones, and explains the doctors use hormones in which a molecule has been changed so the drug companies could patent them and make money — and that is why they cause cancer and stroke, etc.)

    She also had Lierre on since she agrees we need meat for good health. She recommends the Paleo style of eating. Layna does have past shows available about all these topics. She’s the best I could recommend.

    Also, Georgie, I don’t know if you can get John Lee’s book, “What Your Doctor May Not Have Told You About Peri-menopause.” (He did one about menopause also.) I don’t trust men, but he was a doctor who was outraged at how doctors treat women, especially older women, and so he put together some really helpful info — including recommending natural progesterone (instead of estrogens) to prevent cancer and heart disease (since we’re exposed to so many xenoestrogens in soy and plastics and pesticides and food with hormones, progesterone helps to balance the effects.) Lee’s suggestions also help with the terrible mental/emotional effects from unbalanced hormones and eating too many carbs.

    Well, that’s probably more than you wanted to know. I do have detailed info that could help too.

    But yes, all the other crap you’re going through will make you feel like hell also!

  17. Linda Radfem permalink
    November 20, 2010 11:27 pm

    TBL, you can buy simple testing kits for peri-menopause at the supermarket or chemist now. It will give you an idea of where you’re at without having to have contact with a doctor. I’ve been peri-menopausal for a few years now and I’m 44. I’ve noticed that the symptoms, like hot flushes, only happen during the 4-5 month stretches when I don’t ovulate/get a period. I hope that was not too much info for people. Btw a good way to deal with the hot flushes, if you’re getting them, is to keep a water spray handy. You can adjust it to mist setting and it will put the fire out immediately.

    Bev Jo, you’re most welcome. You’ve got me thinking about a post of my own actually. Also your post triggered a few memories for me, about a trannie who is partnered to one of my male cousins. This person is misogynist as all get out, and also subjected my niece to years of emotional and psychological abuse, constantly directing misogynist slurs at her while she was growing up, and always making announcements at family gatherings about how ugly and unattractive she was. Really nasty stuff for which he seemed to get a free pass for on the grounds that he too is a woman and so is allowed to make those statements. When I think back, his male entitlement is obvious and over-exaggerated.

  18. November 21, 2010 3:55 am

    A magazine list of young (US) feminists includes non/anti feminists: (And obviously no radical feminists.)

    It seems there are right wing/conservative women calling themselves feminists now and a lot of mainstream and liberal feminists are worried. Is this related to choice feminism and how there are as many different interpretations of feminism as there are feminists or something else? Or maybe this isn’t new?

  19. November 21, 2010 5:25 pm

    Sorry just checking in quickly to say thanks to everyone for their support on this thread. I really appreciate it and I love you all!

  20. November 21, 2010 8:54 pm

    Love you too, Val. You are not forgotten!

  21. November 24, 2010 4:02 pm

    Not only does a man freely use the word bitch, wink wink nod, nod, in the form of bitchez, well, you know, since that is acceptable, how about faggotez, he goes on to have the fucking nerve to criticize a campaign in which he knows not a goddamn thing about. FYI, you fucking moron. MEN spread HPV. Therefore if anyone should risk being injected with man-made vaccinations it should be men. It has nothing to do with the right to be a “Slut” and/or “promiscuity.” Fucking asshole and his so-called “feminists” supporters. What total and complete misogynists asses. And FYI, forcing me or any woman and/or girl child into getting a shot to prevent the disease that a man causes is fucking POLICING MY BODY! Policing one’s body is not limited to worrying about how many times a dick is inserted into a woman’s body.

    Hee hee, maybe a cute racist cartoon defaulting everyone as white will solve all the problems.

    FAGGOTEZ. (I am so muthrfucking kewl)

    • November 24, 2010 4:58 pm

      Then you got dumb misogynist fucks salivating out the mouth like Patrick from SpongeBob, “Well, little girls are going to be raped, so if they are going to be raped then they might as well be protected.” AGAIN, FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING MIOSGYNIST ASSHOLES. What you are saying is MALES RAPE! DUH! Since MALES RAPE, then why not pump males little RAPING BODIES WITH man-made drugs? Why are females always fucking defaulted as the receptacle. HOW FUCKING MISOGYNIST CAN YOU GET? Because you know, raped or not, female bodies must be made available for pharmaceutical companies. Raped or not she must be poisoned just in case a man decides to rape her. No mention of the bastard not raping.

      Here is a plan. Pump fucking males with drugs. Take their nasty little DNA at the time they are pumped with drugs. Put a tracking device into them. Put a tracking device into their fucking little HPV dicks. What? That’s a problem? You mean we shouldn’t pump the precious body of boys with drugs because they may not rape?

  22. November 24, 2010 8:43 pm

    Just wanted to say I am alive and okay, and am sorry for my absence. Valerie, I’m so sorry to hear that you’re having to put up with that kind of bullshit at your work place.

    Currently I am concerned about my best friend who is trying to leave/has left her abusive, violent, shit-burger, waste-of-oxygen boyfriend. I got a message from her saying that he tried to strangle her yesterday morning and I am worried for her because I’m on the other side of the world and can’t be there for her in person to help her get her things from his place. I fucking hate his guts, before I left, he tried to ban her from seeing me because I smoke and because I am a feminist because I’d “put ideas in her head” and called her quite literally 100 times at 2.30 in the morning to abuse her and accuse her of infidelity. I fucking hate men.

  23. November 24, 2010 8:51 pm

    That is a great plan, Kitty. No more doctor experiments of females or helpless non-human animals! Really, and shouldn’t they take DNA from all males so there’s a database ready when a female is raped? Or just kill them all and save the earth?

    I agree, Aileen. The closer women are to men, the more in danger of their lives they are.

  24. November 24, 2010 8:58 pm

    I like Kitty’s plan as a first and only chance measure, if they fuck that up, which 9/10 of them inevitably will, then kill them. I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that it’s possible (or could be) for womyn to only reproduce with womyn with a 100% chance of a female child, that way, we don’t even have to worry about that one.

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